What’s good, folk. So, I was just sitting here enjoying my lazy Sunday with a healthy helping of NBA basketball and thought I might as well multitask and knock out another message from my Inbox backlog. It’s been a while since I’ve made two posts in a single weekend and I might even try to get a third one in too. We’ll have to see if I feel like being that productive later on in the evening though.
OK, let’s get to it…The email below is from a recent college grad who has some general questions about preparing to apply to MBA programs in a few years. The nuance with his story is that he’s currently working for his fmaily business in Asia and is wondering whether that might place him at a disadvantage in the B-school application game. This isn’t an area that I know a lot about, but I’ll give it my best shot. Hopefully, he’ll be able to get something out of my response.
——-
YL wrote:
“Dear Marquis,
Like many others, I have followed your blog for sometime. Although in recent months, I have not had the time to check up on recent updates. I hope the questions I ask are not repetitive. I also understand you are busy and it takes a long time to give a considered judgment to questions. My enquiry is not pressing so pls do reply me only when you have answered other more urgent emails. I am sure there are others in more dire situations.
I am a recent graduate from the LSE who is interested in a top management-focused MBA program. My education- a BSc with average grades (approx. top 30%). I have several internships at investment banks and performed well. I had offers from an investment bank and a boutique management consultancy, but I chose to go back to Asia to work with the family business for personal reasons. Whilst it is potentially very interesting, I have my concerns about how would this come across on an MBA application.
My questions are as follows:
1) Recommendations play a big part in B-school applications and am wondering if there a need to seek a more ‘transparent’ recommendation from another firm? I am sure some people at GSB were from family businesses, what were their experiences like?
2) A lot is said about the ‘quality’ of experience, what does this really mean- is it interms of how you rank amongst your peers, what you did in the firm? Bearing in mind a small firm doesn’t tend to have the resources to have 360 degree reviews or analyst rankings like a McK or GS. How do you ‘sell’ it on the application especially working overcome less known brand?
3) Opportunities to meet the admissions people in Asia are limited. How much pull do school’s alumni have on one’s application?
4) Some people who want to demonstrate academic ability would do another masters before MBA. I am not a top-student yet do not see the value-add in doing another fulltime masters program, how can I demonstrate my academic ability apart from the GMAT?
Sorry if these sound rather elementary, but they are my genuine concerns.Thanks!
Kind regards,
YL”
——-
My response:
YL,
Thanks for checking out my blog. I know you said I should wait to respond to your message, but I decided to knock yours out early since your questions were relatively straight-forward. I’ve got a tip for you going forward…you should never apologize for asking a question, even if it seems to be rather elementary. It’s always better to ask a question than to wonder about its answer. The last thing you want to do is make moves based on questionable/imperfect information and anything you can do to resolve that is a positive thing, not something that you should have to apologize for. And, this tip REALLY applies when you think about looking at B-school stuff because you can’t afford to take any chances with something so important to your career. Don’t get me wrong…I could have read your message and thought “Wow, these are some silly questions”, but you should let me make that determination instead of making it for me in your email. If nothing else from this message sinks in with you, I hope you truly take this piece of advice to heart.
OK, I’ll step off of my soapbox now and get down to the business of answering your questions. You’ve asked some pretty specific things that would be better directed toward B-school admissions folks, but I’ll answer to the best of my ability. Just know that I’ve never worked in an admissions office, so I’d recommend that you reach out to some official admissions people after seeing my perspective. Your questions were:
—
1) Recommendations play a big part in B-school applications and am wondering if there a need to seek a more ‘transparent’ recommendation from another firm? I am sure some people at GSB were from family businesses, what were their experiences like?
I did have some classmates who were from family businesses, but I never spoke to them about what it was like to get recommendations for their applications. If you’ve done your best work and had the most impact at your family business, then there’s no reason why you shouldn’t get recommendations based on that work. You’ll need to ensure that your recommenders focus on the strength of your work and describe you as a good co-worker/employee/colleague, instead of positioning you as a family member. For example, if your father owns the company, statements like “he has done a great job in leading the company’s sales and marketing efforts”, as opposed to saying “he’s always been a great son so he’d be a great addition to your business school”. This is all pretty basic, right?…well, you wouldn’t believe some of the stories I’ve heard nad read about over the years, so you’ve got to be on the ball about this…it’s too important of an issue to take lightly.
2) A lot is said about the ‘quality’ of experience, what does this really mean- is it interms of how you rank amongst your peers, what you did in the firm? Bearing in mind a small firm doesn’t tend to have the resources to have 360 degree reviews or analyst rankings like a McK or GS. How do you ‘sell’ it on the application especially working overcome less known brand?
This is a tough question to answer because it’s somewhat subjective and depends on what your application readers are hoping to see. But, I was in a similar position when I applied, having worked at a couple of companies with ZERO brand recognition prior to business school. My advice here is to focus on the impact you’ve had in your role, as opposed to the small size of your firm. Basically, impact is impact, whether it happens in a small company or a large one. Don’t let lack of resources of brand recognition make you believe that your work experience isn’t of high quality. Also, concentrate on tangible impact and stay away from “fluff”…for example, saying “I led the team that developed the company’s first web marketing campaign” sounds a LOT better than “I worked very hard and my managers liked me”. I know, I know…simple example, but you’d be surprised at the number of essays I see that sound more like the latter than the former. Hopefully, your recommenders will provide additional background to go along with your description of how much impact you’ve had. You’ve heard of the concept of “spin”, as it relates to marketing, right? Well, in this case, it is up to you to “spin” your experience in the best way possible to make yourself shine.
3) Opportunities to meet the admissions people in Asia are limited. How much pull do school’s alumni have on one’s application?
I don’t know whether a general statement can be made about how much pull alumni have on the application process because it would be so school specific. With that said, I’d imagine that alumni could be leveraged for additional impressions on applicants in regions where access to admissions people are limited. I don’t really know how that process would work though. I suggest that you reach out to alums of your target schools to chat about their experiences without any expectations of them being able to give you a leg-up in the application process. Just focus on making a good impression (by having a positive presence, asking good questions, etc) and, if the person can say good things about you to Admissions, hope that they’ll do so.
4) Some people who want to demonstrate academic ability would do another masters before MBA. I am not a top-student yet do not see the value-add in doing another fulltime masters program, how can I demonstrate my academic ability apart from the GMAT?
This is a great question because you definitely DO NOT have to do another masters degree prior to your MBA to demonstrate ability. In fact, the great majority of people don’t follow this path prior to business school. Granted, I did a pre-MBA masters degree, but I did so with the dual goals of giving me a career boost and preparing me for B-school sometime in the future. Barring an additional grad degree, you do have a few options to flex your academics in your application package, including the following:
a. Take a few additional collegiate-level courses before applying to business school. These courses could be through a community college, university, executive education, or other extension program, but make sure they’re from a reputable institution. Most people who take extra courses do them in foundational business courses (incl. accounting, finance, and statistics), but I’ve also heard of people taking harder math or science courses (calculus, physics, etc.) to counter any issues with the perception of their quant abilities. You’ll want to make sure that you get “rockstar” grades in these courses and, if you do, you could try to leverage them as proof that you can handle the rigors of a graduate business program.
b. Ask former professors from college (or from the extra courses mentioned above) to write testimonials about your strong performance in the classroom. Many of us do very well in some courses, only to have our overall GPAs brought down by so-so grades in courses we never should have taken in the first place. What you’ll want to do is figure out which professor could say great things about you and submit their testimonials as additional information with your B-school applications. I can’t guarantee that the admissions people will review these extra letters, but it can’t hurt to include them in your package.
This is far from an exhaustive list, but they’re the biggest ones that came to mind when I thought about your question. You might want to ask a few other MBA graduates about this to see if they can come up with any other ideas for you.
—
I’m not sure if I gave you the depth you were seeking in my responses, but this should be a decent starting point for you to think through your standing. I wish you the best of luck with your business school application process (whenever you start applying) and with contributing to the growth of your family business. Take care and enjoy the remainder of your weekend.
-Marquis
OK, let’s get to it…The email below is from a recent college grad who has some general questions about preparing to apply to MBA programs in a few years. The nuance with his story is that he’s currently working for his fmaily business in Asia and is wondering whether that might place him at a disadvantage in the B-school application game. This isn’t an area that I know a lot about, but I’ll give it my best shot. Hopefully, he’ll be able to get something out of my response.
——-
YL wrote:
“Dear Marquis,
Like many others, I have followed your blog for sometime. Although in recent months, I have not had the time to check up on recent updates. I hope the questions I ask are not repetitive. I also understand you are busy and it takes a long time to give a considered judgment to questions. My enquiry is not pressing so pls do reply me only when you have answered other more urgent emails. I am sure there are others in more dire situations.
I am a recent graduate from the LSE who is interested in a top management-focused MBA program. My education- a BSc with average grades (approx. top 30%). I have several internships at investment banks and performed well. I had offers from an investment bank and a boutique management consultancy, but I chose to go back to Asia to work with the family business for personal reasons. Whilst it is potentially very interesting, I have my concerns about how would this come across on an MBA application.
My questions are as follows:
1) Recommendations play a big part in B-school applications and am wondering if there a need to seek a more ‘transparent’ recommendation from another firm? I am sure some people at GSB were from family businesses, what were their experiences like?
2) A lot is said about the ‘quality’ of experience, what does this really mean- is it interms of how you rank amongst your peers, what you did in the firm? Bearing in mind a small firm doesn’t tend to have the resources to have 360 degree reviews or analyst rankings like a McK or GS. How do you ‘sell’ it on the application especially working overcome less known brand?
3) Opportunities to meet the admissions people in Asia are limited. How much pull do school’s alumni have on one’s application?
4) Some people who want to demonstrate academic ability would do another masters before MBA. I am not a top-student yet do not see the value-add in doing another fulltime masters program, how can I demonstrate my academic ability apart from the GMAT?
Sorry if these sound rather elementary, but they are my genuine concerns.Thanks!
Kind regards,
YL”
——-
My response:
YL,
Thanks for checking out my blog. I know you said I should wait to respond to your message, but I decided to knock yours out early since your questions were relatively straight-forward. I’ve got a tip for you going forward…you should never apologize for asking a question, even if it seems to be rather elementary. It’s always better to ask a question than to wonder about its answer. The last thing you want to do is make moves based on questionable/imperfect information and anything you can do to resolve that is a positive thing, not something that you should have to apologize for. And, this tip REALLY applies when you think about looking at B-school stuff because you can’t afford to take any chances with something so important to your career. Don’t get me wrong…I could have read your message and thought “Wow, these are some silly questions”, but you should let me make that determination instead of making it for me in your email. If nothing else from this message sinks in with you, I hope you truly take this piece of advice to heart.
OK, I’ll step off of my soapbox now and get down to the business of answering your questions. You’ve asked some pretty specific things that would be better directed toward B-school admissions folks, but I’ll answer to the best of my ability. Just know that I’ve never worked in an admissions office, so I’d recommend that you reach out to some official admissions people after seeing my perspective. Your questions were:
—
1) Recommendations play a big part in B-school applications and am wondering if there a need to seek a more ‘transparent’ recommendation from another firm? I am sure some people at GSB were from family businesses, what were their experiences like?
I did have some classmates who were from family businesses, but I never spoke to them about what it was like to get recommendations for their applications. If you’ve done your best work and had the most impact at your family business, then there’s no reason why you shouldn’t get recommendations based on that work. You’ll need to ensure that your recommenders focus on the strength of your work and describe you as a good co-worker/employee/colleague, instead of positioning you as a family member. For example, if your father owns the company, statements like “he has done a great job in leading the company’s sales and marketing efforts”, as opposed to saying “he’s always been a great son so he’d be a great addition to your business school”. This is all pretty basic, right?…well, you wouldn’t believe some of the stories I’ve heard nad read about over the years, so you’ve got to be on the ball about this…it’s too important of an issue to take lightly.
2) A lot is said about the ‘quality’ of experience, what does this really mean- is it interms of how you rank amongst your peers, what you did in the firm? Bearing in mind a small firm doesn’t tend to have the resources to have 360 degree reviews or analyst rankings like a McK or GS. How do you ‘sell’ it on the application especially working overcome less known brand?
This is a tough question to answer because it’s somewhat subjective and depends on what your application readers are hoping to see. But, I was in a similar position when I applied, having worked at a couple of companies with ZERO brand recognition prior to business school. My advice here is to focus on the impact you’ve had in your role, as opposed to the small size of your firm. Basically, impact is impact, whether it happens in a small company or a large one. Don’t let lack of resources of brand recognition make you believe that your work experience isn’t of high quality. Also, concentrate on tangible impact and stay away from “fluff”…for example, saying “I led the team that developed the company’s first web marketing campaign” sounds a LOT better than “I worked very hard and my managers liked me”. I know, I know…simple example, but you’d be surprised at the number of essays I see that sound more like the latter than the former. Hopefully, your recommenders will provide additional background to go along with your description of how much impact you’ve had. You’ve heard of the concept of “spin”, as it relates to marketing, right? Well, in this case, it is up to you to “spin” your experience in the best way possible to make yourself shine.
3) Opportunities to meet the admissions people in Asia are limited. How much pull do school’s alumni have on one’s application?
I don’t know whether a general statement can be made about how much pull alumni have on the application process because it would be so school specific. With that said, I’d imagine that alumni could be leveraged for additional impressions on applicants in regions where access to admissions people are limited. I don’t really know how that process would work though. I suggest that you reach out to alums of your target schools to chat about their experiences without any expectations of them being able to give you a leg-up in the application process. Just focus on making a good impression (by having a positive presence, asking good questions, etc) and, if the person can say good things about you to Admissions, hope that they’ll do so.
4) Some people who want to demonstrate academic ability would do another masters before MBA. I am not a top-student yet do not see the value-add in doing another fulltime masters program, how can I demonstrate my academic ability apart from the GMAT?
This is a great question because you definitely DO NOT have to do another masters degree prior to your MBA to demonstrate ability. In fact, the great majority of people don’t follow this path prior to business school. Granted, I did a pre-MBA masters degree, but I did so with the dual goals of giving me a career boost and preparing me for B-school sometime in the future. Barring an additional grad degree, you do have a few options to flex your academics in your application package, including the following:
a. Take a few additional collegiate-level courses before applying to business school. These courses could be through a community college, university, executive education, or other extension program, but make sure they’re from a reputable institution. Most people who take extra courses do them in foundational business courses (incl. accounting, finance, and statistics), but I’ve also heard of people taking harder math or science courses (calculus, physics, etc.) to counter any issues with the perception of their quant abilities. You’ll want to make sure that you get “rockstar” grades in these courses and, if you do, you could try to leverage them as proof that you can handle the rigors of a graduate business program.
b. Ask former professors from college (or from the extra courses mentioned above) to write testimonials about your strong performance in the classroom. Many of us do very well in some courses, only to have our overall GPAs brought down by so-so grades in courses we never should have taken in the first place. What you’ll want to do is figure out which professor could say great things about you and submit their testimonials as additional information with your B-school applications. I can’t guarantee that the admissions people will review these extra letters, but it can’t hurt to include them in your package.
This is far from an exhaustive list, but they’re the biggest ones that came to mind when I thought about your question. You might want to ask a few other MBA graduates about this to see if they can come up with any other ideas for you.
—
I’m not sure if I gave you the depth you were seeking in my responses, but this should be a decent starting point for you to think through your standing. I wish you the best of luck with your business school application process (whenever you start applying) and with contributing to the growth of your family business. Take care and enjoy the remainder of your weekend.
-Marquis
Columbia’s J-term program has quite a few folks who came from family businesses. Some folks were changing careers (out of the family business and into something else) but others were planning to return to their family business. In addition, the J-term student body is extremely international (I think it was 60% this year, 50%+ my year).